Did I mention replacing it?!
Citizenship definitely carries with it personal responsibility, a responsibility to care and input a responsibility to speak out when you see something is wrong, something is very wrong.
I realised this when the police shut down party after party after party.
Nigel Farage pointed out something that is very real and very true, he may be a divisive prick but there again I’ve never met him.....
According to Wikipedia the EU commission proposes legislation then implements decisions.
Just what is your point theorist Two? I'm getting confused now and the more stuff you and Theorist One post on FaceBook the more confused I get trying to understand what you are trying to say.
The EU is a Nazi illuminate type conspiracy hell bent on destroying democracy?
It is still an interesting discussion though. Sure beats hearing about what people had for breakfast and what time they went to bed ;-)
I have spent a lot of time looking into why this is and it seems that there is indeed for want of a better word a conspiracy or more correctly a plan on a very large scale, one so large and far reaching that it rocks the very fabric of our taught history and our perception of reality.
For me to say something like this will cause people to question my sanity and indeed what i have read seen and experienced to arrive at this conclusion.
Well my answer is if you want to understand Math study Math.
And if you want to understand law study law,
I'm obsessed with it; I can't understand how a person cannot be completely fascinated by these questions. I am willing to read and listen to anybody and anything which may give me the answers I’m looking for. This does not mean I am gullible, far from it. I got to where I am now by questioning, investigating, reading and intuition.
I don't have a good memory. It's very difficult for me to site facts, times, dates and references, to back up all that I believe. But that does not make my findings null and void it just means I’ve got a shit memory.
If someone asked me to show them something I have seen or read which led me to question reality and history as the mainstream media and mainstream scientific and historical community portray I can do that. In fact I could probably find them an updated version of or presentation by someone who's good at that sort of thing, but that doesn't mean i agree with them lock stock and barrel it means it's pretty close to what I think.
Go for it Theorist One. All I’m trying to do is understand your arguments and POV.
Oz.... you more than anyone else over the years has made me question my motives and reasons for doing things and feeling the way i do. You help me clarify what is important to me and understand who i am i don't know why but it's kind of cosmic! You will always have a special place in my heart!
Hi Oz. Just a quick reply Re." what's my point?" And bearing in mind this is my opinion based on the reading and research I have done during the past 5 years ... and you won't find this information on the BBC (Receives funding from the E...U in direct contravention to the BBC charter -http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article3257748.ece) or indeed any of the mainstream media because the main players in the mainstream media are closely allied with the people pulling the strings ...
My point is there is a global conspiracy and only those people who are willing to accept that this might be a possibility have any chance of beginning to see just how deep the Rabbit hole goes.
Re. chemtrails, this is a good place to start
and definitely watch this new documentary
And this guy has some useful information re. The EU, although he's dead now unfortunately.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ is another good resource for links to various news stories of note as is the headline page at www.davidicke.com/headlines
I'm not asking you to agree with anything I'm saying but simply to be open minded enough to consider that unless I was barking mad I wouldn't be saying these things. Hope you're well :-)
From such a perspective, an anti-EU or UN sentiments don't necessarily reflect a nationalist or antagonistic view point. It is rooted more, I would suggest, in concern that many people are being duped into believing regional groupings (like the EU) and institutions have a benevolent agenda when in fact they were created by and for the purpose of the global elite to consolidate their power base. In truth we are all being lied to about the true nature of the Eu and what they are trying to achieve - democracy doesn't really exist.... it is an illusion because it matters not whom we "vote" into power, these are only the puppets doing the bidding of their oligarchy masters. One basic fact alone proves this: money issuance is in private hands via the central banking system. A people issuing its own currency is the fundamental bases of a free and democratise nation. This is why our governments borrow money when it could, and indeed should, print its own money - hence where the real power lies. A central bank is the main pillar of the communist manifesto, along with a graduated income tax - we have both. People are often shocked when I tell them that we are more communist than a democracy.
Your disbelief is understandable because we have all been brought up on lies upon lies. It is not possible to see the magnitude of the deception without doing some considerable personal research.
I don't disbelieve anything; just looking for clarification and connections in your arguments.
What is the end purpose of this global conspiracy? Why do you, personally, want to stop it? Who else believes this conspiracy theory? ...being against global multinationalism is now not part of the argument? How do you know what you believe is true with any certainty and you aren't being fed a line like you say the rest of us are? We all believe some doctrine or dogma don't we? Is communism, collectivism, integration to be feared and if so why? What are your alternatives the the structures you say we have now?
Anyway, lots of food for thought there guys! Give me a bit of processing / research time and I'll get back to this thread soon...
* Me personally want to stop it?: As a Buddhist, and I guess from a common sense point of view, what goes on in the greater world affects me personally. This is especially so if the egenda is a population reduction and a fascist style dictatorship.
* How do I know it is true? I guess we have to do our own personal research and make our own mind up.
As to the alternative to what we have now? It's something I need to think about more than I have! Having said that, I've never understood why I have to ask someone else (vote for someone) to talk to the people in charge on my behalf - I'm not interested in a system where I hand over my sovereignty to anyone! or where I am forced to pay Tax from the day I am born. This is not freedom. This is slavery. And personally I've had enough of being enslaved.
I started truth seeking consciously about 4 years ago, reading David Icke's book Alice in Wonderland: The Truth about the 9/11 Disaster. When I saw the title in a bookshop window, I ran in and bought it straight away because I had secretly held the view that it was an inside job since I saw the towers go down. I was amazed by the clearly presented facts that he documents. Since then, I've encountered the same truth through other sources and it has led me 'down the rabbit hole', discovering the untold history which I always suspected by intuition. I've read, or at least dipped into a few of David's books now and 9/11 is just a part of it. There is no doubt in my mind now that there is a sinister agenda orchestrated over thousands of years by the 'elite'. They have managed their agenda pretty well so far, without being detected, and have created a prison without bars which has been adopted by us of our own volition so it seems...
There is so much to say about the awakening that many people are finding themselves. I see so many excellent links from Theorist Two and so I won't add any more for now. I'd just like to add that I'm perceiving this time that we are living to be an extra-ordinary transition to a greater consciousness which is our birth right. Revealing the gruesome truth is necessary for us to reclaim this awareness of who we truly are.
Google Hollie Greig!
I know that many people are afraid of an alternative to what we have now as a system. They are afraid of the chaos they have been told about would ensue if it were to change.
I do believe that people are basically good and kind and loving and incredibly adaptable and ingenious.
I do believe that those who seek and need power or dominion over others are genuinely ill or best very severely different, by their very nature we are charmed by them and buy into their need to control and their methods of persuasion. It's a bit like tuff love, we have got to stop agreeing with them and supporting them just because they've got big mouths. Things don't have to be on a huge scale everywhere organised by army's and corporations.
After all the people who do the controlling and the manipulating are not the artists or the scientists or the inventors or farmers or the nurses or the carpenters or the teachers or the builders etc etc. what I’m saying is we can all spot them a mile off! and we don't need them.
It doesn't mean we should write them off as people but it does mean we should actively shun their methods and try and ignore their way of doing stuff because it doesn't work !
They are outmoded and have had their day, they are terrified of chaos, most are unable to understand creativity and the need for it though they do a very good job of pretending and dealing in it. They crave order and hierarchy but most of all they crave power.
From JFK, to 911 to the EU illuminati to Osama Bin Laden’s death to global warming (e.g. http://www.911proof.com/). For every conspiracy theory website or book or (pseudo?) academic position there is a debunk the conspiracy website, book or academic position (e.g. http://www.debunking911.com/quick.htm ). Looking at them you can see the conviction of both sides and all positions on the sliding scale between them. It can be very confusing to a casual observer. Perhaps because I have been educated by mainstream academia and taught critical thinking and the need for the requirement of proof all I can really do is try to question things on both sides thoroughly?
What is the truth, what is the lie and what does it matter and it what way? Is there really such a simple dichotomy as truth or lies? Or is reality more complex and flux like? Is all opinion, academic, scientific or whatever, subjective?
Are you angry or frustrated with people who do not comprehend your point of view? Do you do it because you feel the world does not listen to you? Or are you trying to have some impact on the world and this is one way you can do it from your armchair without having to align to a political party or a cause or join a pressure group or lobby with a cause or other people? Is what you do solitary or social? Does this drive to inform people of your beliefs get in the way of your everyday life and impinge on other people’s lives? Is it the theory itself or the telling everyone about the truth, your truth, your perception of the truth or even your perceptions of some notion that you have decided you’re going to buy into that motivates you?
I see a lot of incoherence, a lot of internet only based content, a lot of discredited political and scientific people used to back up these theories. Have they just been discredited by the mainstream to make them appear less valid? All I know is that things are more complicated than they seem but why is the only place I can study conspiracy theory is on the internet I wonder? Does the ‘conspiracy industry’ create consumers for their products just like the mainstream thinkers do? Do you think they deliberately mislead for any reasons? I see no challenge to conspiracy theorists from you. Do you question some of their ideas, just a little bit? I can see how it can be very seductive providing simplified explanations for complex systems; I do it myself to try and understand the world. All I can come up with are more questions that need answering.